If you want to talk about lesbians and gays, say LGB. If you want to talk about crossing-dressing men in the women's bathroom, don't bring us into it. Stop forcing victims to remain with their abuser.
With this and your previous post, you are now absolutely my favourite lesbian, feminist writer. I love your take on things and your writing style. Fingers crossed for another go at posting on Facebook 🤞🤞🤞
I love your post! I grew up before there was anything remotely positive about Lesbians. Not one book and the few films were horrifying. We were mostly ignored but "homosexuals" meant men and were usually associated with pathology or the the things that Lesbians are the oppositve of, like "homosexuals have the highest rate of STDs and AIDS," "homosexuals are promiscuous," etc. I'm a Lifelong Lesbian and my community was never connected with gay men, who also mostly hated us until they demanded our support. The first Lesbian Feminists I found in 1970 were calling themselves "gay women," but most switched to Lesbians or Dykes because we did not want to be associated with gay men. (We wrote about this in detail in our book, "Dykes-Loving-Dykes," published in 1990 and updated at my first blog.) https://bevjoradicallesbian.wordpress.com/2017/09/10/introduction-to-dykes-loving-dykes-dyke-separatist-politics-25-years-update/
One of my concerns also is the association of Lesbians with gay men means bad treatment by doctors. (I was very sick with an increasing fever and wanted a strep test, but the doctor looked a me with contempt and asked if I had AIDS! As a het woman, she was more likely to have AIDS than me since I was at no risk as all.)
I wrote more recently about the differences at my second blog:
Ah, fair enough. I'm using it in the mechanical, or medical sense, more than anything, because it sets such a clear boundary vs heterosexual.
I grew up in/participated in a much more integrated community vis-a-vis LGB, so my experience is quite different (and that integration made our community much more vulnerable, unfortunately.)
I figure "Lesbian" makes it clear we aren't het, and doesn't associate us with gay men who have harmed us so much, including demanding our cleaner blood after writing that they didn't want us at their pool parties because we're dirty, before AIDS, though they still had so many STDs.
I think it makes sense to fight the trans cult with alliances some of the time, but usually we're at the bottom of the heap.
Back in the summer of 1978, I found myself in San Francisco for about a month (long story) and wandered into a lesbian bar one weekend afternoon.
It was in the Castro, and I wanted a break from the relentless cruising and thought a lesbian bar might be a good place just to relax and chat up some girls in the tribe, without any hormones getting in the way.
Um, nope. After it took 10 minutes of standing at the bar to get a beer, and being rebuffed on the howdy front a few times, I got the message and left
I wasn't mad or anything. I figured they wanted a man-less space, fer chrissakes, and that I ought to respect that. So I did. One and done. Kinda like not appreciating it when straight women used a semi-leather cruise bar for bridesmaids parties, or would occasionally drag their boyfriends there to give them a lesson in open mindedness.
When those things happened, I remembered my intrusion that one afternoon in San Francisco. I thought to myself, "Aren't there a couple hundred straight bars for you? Can't you go there and give us our joints for ourselves?"
Of course, these days (from what I hear, being long coupled and boring and old) the gay bar scene is pretty much dead, replaced by Grindr and other Internet venues like it, something that gives me mixed feelings.
In any case, while I understand the separatism and embraced it in my own way, it's a little sad to have seen it accompanied here by invective, however mild. We are homos, and homos are a tribe.
I know a lesbian or three, and out here in the countryside our annual gay-fest with a couple dozen people includes a significant bunch of girl girls along with the ram rams, and we like each other. Dang.
Gay bars are dying, being turning into straight bars with drag queen zoo exhibits, filled with people with dyed hair or straight people who don't even bother pretending.
The mixed lesbian/gay bars are all straight bars now.
The lesbian bars are flecks of dust in the wind, all long since closed.
To whom you are attracted sexually is purely subjective and therefore cannot reasonably be contested by an outside observer.
Where you decide to live your life on a spectrum of superficial, stereotypical male to female attributes (and we all do) is also purely subjective and similarly cannot be questioned.
However, your biological sex reflects an objective reality which cannot be changed by your subjective personal view and futile attempts to do so can result in serious health impacts to you as well as harms to members of the sex you are impersonating (primarily women).
Others who are grounded in objective reality should never be forced to accept your subjective version of your actual biological sex.
Finally, it's past time for the LGB community to separate themselves from the trans activists who are trying to take away the rights of women to fairness in sports and to privacy and safety in their restrooms, locker rooms and prisons. They also advocate for the chemical and surgical mutilation of children many of whom would grow up gay.
Their actions are evil and the
understandable negative reaction to the harm they are causing is spilling over to innocent people who are just going about their business, marrying and leading their lives.
We’ve been trying to separate for YEARS. The media will not let us. They refuse to stop using the unbreakable wifi password. Politicians do this too. No matter how much I say I’m not LGBTQIKKK2S they do not care. The narrative is so entrenched I do not know how it can be rooted out unless everyone, everywhere, starts saying “NO” whenever a pundit or politician reiterates it.
As an aside; sexual attraction is objective as well as subjective. It is literally measurable. You can hook a gay man up to some electrodes and measure his arousal when he sees an attractive man, and his lack of arousal when he sees a woman. Sexuality is not just thoughts in the brain, it is a measurable, physical response to the real world.
That "arousal" is NOT OBJECTIVE.....sure, you can use a device, and call that device "objective", because it's an object, but what that object measures was created subjectively.....think about it.....
No it is also objective, because it can be measured empirically. Your subjective experience does not preclude the objective reality. I think you need to think about it more. The sun shining on my face is an objective fact. My blood vessels expanding and my nerves transmitting the sensations of light and heat to my brain are objective, measurable, facts. My subjective experience of feeling the sun on my face is also real. In the same way my body’s sexual reaction to another body is both subjective and objectively measurable. The only difference is perspective, not preclusion.
We in Aotearoa, N.Z., are currently taking the local Pride fair to the Human Rights Review Tribunal (HRRT) cos they discriminated against us by barring us (Lesbian Action for Visibility in Aotearoa), lesbians who assert that we are same-SEX attracted women - not same-gender, from the fair where we were going to display a map of local lesbian history to inspire the newer lesbians who no longer have a strong proud lesbian community. Here where we live it is just like you have described it. Thanks for writing this so clearly. Have a look at our HRRT case at our website LAVA.nz .
This is all well and good, but we need a pithy rejoinder for when someone says LGBTQ2Sblahblah. 'LGB - Drop the T' is good as a slogan but it is difficult to use in everyday conversation.
I’ve been faced with a demographic survey which asks respondents about their “gender” (but not sex), whether or not they consider themselves transgender, and whether they belong to the “LGBTQIA+” (or something like that, definitely at least the first 5 letters) “community.” No question that was only about sexual orientation. Which means there is no way to determine from the responses how many respondents are homosexual (gay or lesbian) and how many are heterosexual.
(As a side note, it’s unclear to me why the group doing this survey feels it’s important to know the demographics of their membership. Seems to be an attempt to measure how “inclusive” they’re being. But I bet if I let my TERF attitude show, I would be EXcluded in a hurry.)
Yes, I noticed this with the election exit polls. Suddenly, it was LGBTQIA+ voters. How did gays and lesbians vote? No idea, they've been lumped in with straight people claiming to be them.
I suspect a huge number of L&G voters single-issue voted for Trump, and that's really not a good look for the Democrats, hence 'LGBTQIA+'.
With this and your previous post, you are now absolutely my favourite lesbian, feminist writer. I love your take on things and your writing style. Fingers crossed for another go at posting on Facebook 🤞🤞🤞
Great rant. Thanks!
Being polite is what got us here. Telling the truth in clear language is the way out of this madness. Let em fucking have it Sue!
Thank you. Seeing "LGBTQIA" etc. is maddening and so offensive. I always say, they might as well add "KKK."
I've been fighting the transcult sinc 1970 and never dreamt that the predominately het men of T would be allowed to take over our Lesbian communities.
Also, Lesbians are not "homosexuals."
Curious about your last point, "Also, Lesbians are not "homosexuals." ?
I love your post! I grew up before there was anything remotely positive about Lesbians. Not one book and the few films were horrifying. We were mostly ignored but "homosexuals" meant men and were usually associated with pathology or the the things that Lesbians are the oppositve of, like "homosexuals have the highest rate of STDs and AIDS," "homosexuals are promiscuous," etc. I'm a Lifelong Lesbian and my community was never connected with gay men, who also mostly hated us until they demanded our support. The first Lesbian Feminists I found in 1970 were calling themselves "gay women," but most switched to Lesbians or Dykes because we did not want to be associated with gay men. (We wrote about this in detail in our book, "Dykes-Loving-Dykes," published in 1990 and updated at my first blog.) https://bevjoradicallesbian.wordpress.com/2017/09/10/introduction-to-dykes-loving-dykes-dyke-separatist-politics-25-years-update/
One of my concerns also is the association of Lesbians with gay men means bad treatment by doctors. (I was very sick with an increasing fever and wanted a strep test, but the doctor looked a me with contempt and asked if I had AIDS! As a het woman, she was more likely to have AIDS than me since I was at no risk as all.)
I wrote more recently about the differences at my second blog:
https://keepingreallesbianfeminismsimple.wordpress.com/2021/10/24/please-help-stop-the-erasing-of-radical-lesbian-feminism/
Ah, fair enough. I'm using it in the mechanical, or medical sense, more than anything, because it sets such a clear boundary vs heterosexual.
I grew up in/participated in a much more integrated community vis-a-vis LGB, so my experience is quite different (and that integration made our community much more vulnerable, unfortunately.)
I figure "Lesbian" makes it clear we aren't het, and doesn't associate us with gay men who have harmed us so much, including demanding our cleaner blood after writing that they didn't want us at their pool parties because we're dirty, before AIDS, though they still had so many STDs.
I think it makes sense to fight the trans cult with alliances some of the time, but usually we're at the bottom of the heap.
Back in the summer of 1978, I found myself in San Francisco for about a month (long story) and wandered into a lesbian bar one weekend afternoon.
It was in the Castro, and I wanted a break from the relentless cruising and thought a lesbian bar might be a good place just to relax and chat up some girls in the tribe, without any hormones getting in the way.
Um, nope. After it took 10 minutes of standing at the bar to get a beer, and being rebuffed on the howdy front a few times, I got the message and left
I wasn't mad or anything. I figured they wanted a man-less space, fer chrissakes, and that I ought to respect that. So I did. One and done. Kinda like not appreciating it when straight women used a semi-leather cruise bar for bridesmaids parties, or would occasionally drag their boyfriends there to give them a lesson in open mindedness.
When those things happened, I remembered my intrusion that one afternoon in San Francisco. I thought to myself, "Aren't there a couple hundred straight bars for you? Can't you go there and give us our joints for ourselves?"
Of course, these days (from what I hear, being long coupled and boring and old) the gay bar scene is pretty much dead, replaced by Grindr and other Internet venues like it, something that gives me mixed feelings.
In any case, while I understand the separatism and embraced it in my own way, it's a little sad to have seen it accompanied here by invective, however mild. We are homos, and homos are a tribe.
I know a lesbian or three, and out here in the countryside our annual gay-fest with a couple dozen people includes a significant bunch of girl girls along with the ram rams, and we like each other. Dang.
Gay bars are dying, being turning into straight bars with drag queen zoo exhibits, filled with people with dyed hair or straight people who don't even bother pretending.
The mixed lesbian/gay bars are all straight bars now.
The lesbian bars are flecks of dust in the wind, all long since closed.
To whom you are attracted sexually is purely subjective and therefore cannot reasonably be contested by an outside observer.
Where you decide to live your life on a spectrum of superficial, stereotypical male to female attributes (and we all do) is also purely subjective and similarly cannot be questioned.
However, your biological sex reflects an objective reality which cannot be changed by your subjective personal view and futile attempts to do so can result in serious health impacts to you as well as harms to members of the sex you are impersonating (primarily women).
Others who are grounded in objective reality should never be forced to accept your subjective version of your actual biological sex.
Finally, it's past time for the LGB community to separate themselves from the trans activists who are trying to take away the rights of women to fairness in sports and to privacy and safety in their restrooms, locker rooms and prisons. They also advocate for the chemical and surgical mutilation of children many of whom would grow up gay.
Their actions are evil and the
understandable negative reaction to the harm they are causing is spilling over to innocent people who are just going about their business, marrying and leading their lives.
We’ve been trying to separate for YEARS. The media will not let us. They refuse to stop using the unbreakable wifi password. Politicians do this too. No matter how much I say I’m not LGBTQIKKK2S they do not care. The narrative is so entrenched I do not know how it can be rooted out unless everyone, everywhere, starts saying “NO” whenever a pundit or politician reiterates it.
As an aside; sexual attraction is objective as well as subjective. It is literally measurable. You can hook a gay man up to some electrodes and measure his arousal when he sees an attractive man, and his lack of arousal when he sees a woman. Sexuality is not just thoughts in the brain, it is a measurable, physical response to the real world.
That "arousal" is NOT OBJECTIVE.....sure, you can use a device, and call that device "objective", because it's an object, but what that object measures was created subjectively.....think about it.....
No it is also objective, because it can be measured empirically. Your subjective experience does not preclude the objective reality. I think you need to think about it more. The sun shining on my face is an objective fact. My blood vessels expanding and my nerves transmitting the sensations of light and heat to my brain are objective, measurable, facts. My subjective experience of feeling the sun on my face is also real. In the same way my body’s sexual reaction to another body is both subjective and objectively measurable. The only difference is perspective, not preclusion.
One nit to pick: I imagine that “I” doesn’t want to be lumped in with the QT’s either. Otherwise, spot on rant.
I have seen some I/DSD folks say things like leave us out of this, dont speak for me, etc.
Hear hear! I cringe every time I see that ludicrous acronym! Ditto the pink and blue predator flag!!
We in Aotearoa, N.Z., are currently taking the local Pride fair to the Human Rights Review Tribunal (HRRT) cos they discriminated against us by barring us (Lesbian Action for Visibility in Aotearoa), lesbians who assert that we are same-SEX attracted women - not same-gender, from the fair where we were going to display a map of local lesbian history to inspire the newer lesbians who no longer have a strong proud lesbian community. Here where we live it is just like you have described it. Thanks for writing this so clearly. Have a look at our HRRT case at our website LAVA.nz .
In the words of that late great martyr, Magdelen Berns, "Leave lesbians alone!"
This is all well and good, but we need a pithy rejoinder for when someone says LGBTQ2Sblahblah. 'LGB - Drop the T' is good as a slogan but it is difficult to use in everyday conversation.
I like the sound of 'OK, straggot', but that's definitely offensive.
It's funny and deserved
How about just, "Remind me what those letters stand for?" And make them spell it out.
"Thing X will affect [Word Salad] children!!!"
"Pardon?"
"I said; thing X will affect [Word Salad] children!!!"
"Remind me what those letters stand for?"
"Well L is Lesbian, G is gay..."
"Wait. How are they going to be affected by thing X?"
And make them explain their reasoning.
(There will be reasoning of the Overton Window variety.)
DAG, we need to talk about the meaning of the word 'pithy'.
Well, "remind me...etc" seems pithy to me. However, how about 'LGBWTF?"
Yell "HIKE!"
I think we should start using the term 'HTNQDE+ Community' when we talk and write about straight people. See how they like it.
Heterosexual Trans Non-Binary Queer Drag Eunuch + Community
Since the heterosexuals are so accepting of all those 'identities'. They can associate with them.
I’ve been faced with a demographic survey which asks respondents about their “gender” (but not sex), whether or not they consider themselves transgender, and whether they belong to the “LGBTQIA+” (or something like that, definitely at least the first 5 letters) “community.” No question that was only about sexual orientation. Which means there is no way to determine from the responses how many respondents are homosexual (gay or lesbian) and how many are heterosexual.
(As a side note, it’s unclear to me why the group doing this survey feels it’s important to know the demographics of their membership. Seems to be an attempt to measure how “inclusive” they’re being. But I bet if I let my TERF attitude show, I would be EXcluded in a hurry.)
Yes, I noticed this with the election exit polls. Suddenly, it was LGBTQIA+ voters. How did gays and lesbians vote? No idea, they've been lumped in with straight people claiming to be them.
I suspect a huge number of L&G voters single-issue voted for Trump, and that's really not a good look for the Democrats, hence 'LGBTQIA+'.
Well said! I never ever got into the stupid habit of using that alphabet soup. <3
Whoah! Well that woke me up . . . better than a belt of black coffee and a doughnut!
…but my favorite part is the "Roman bust avatar!"
We used to beat up cross-dressing men who went into women's bathrooms.
Not sure what happened with that, but that seemed to work better than enabling the behavior.